ALASKA CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION

December 7, 1955

THIRTIETH DAY

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Convention will come to order. We have with us this morning the Reverend A. L. Moore of the Seventh Day Adventist Church in Fairbanks. Reverend Moore will give our daily invocation.

REVEREND MOORE: Our dear, kind Heavenly Father, we thank Thee for all Thy many blessings, for life and health and strength. We are especially thankful to Thee this morning for the privilege of living in a free country, for the privilege of holding and expressing our own views. We thank Thee for the privilege of living in a country in which we may formulate our own constitution and laws. We would ask You to bless this morning and this meeting and in the days to come. Bless each individual as they discuss the problems relating to our Territory and as they formulate a constitution. We ask Thee to be with the leaders of our Nation in the Capital and ask You to give them wisdom and understanding. We would ask Thee also to direct them in such a way, if it is Thy will, that Alaska may be instituted as a state. We ask these things in Thy Holy Name. Amen.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chief Clerk will call the roll.

(The Chief Clerk called the roll at this time.)

CHIEF CLERK: Two absent.

PRESIDENT EGAN: A quorum is present. The Convention will proceed with its regular order of business. Does the special Committee to read the journal have a report to make? Mr. Knight?

KNIGHT: Mr. President, for the journal of the 26th day, I ask unanimous consent that it be approved as read.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Knight asks unanimous consent that the journal of the 26th Convention day be approved as read. Is there objection? Hearing no objection the journal of the 26th day is ordered approved. Are there any petitions, memorials or communications from outside the Convention? Are there reports of standing committees?

CHIEF CLERK: I have one.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chief Clerk may read the report.

CHIEF CLERK: "Report of the Committee on Resolutions and Recommendations. The Committee, having had under consideration at several meetings Delegate Victor Fischer's Proposal No. 10,

appeared before the Committee and expressed their views, and Mr. Elliott having stated that he did not think that the subject matter of Proposal No. 10 properly constituted Constitutional Matter, reports to the Convention that the Committee is of opinion that Proposal No. 10 should not be included in the Constitution and that it is not Constitutional matter.

Adopted December 6, 1955.

Signed by John M. Cross, Chairman."

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the report of the Resolutions Committee as regards Proposal No. 10. What is the pleasure of the Convention as regards the report?

V. FISCHER: I move the report to the Committee be approved and ask unanimous consent.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Fischer moves and asks unanimous consent that the report of the committee which was just read be approved. Is there objection? There being no objection it is so ordered. Are there reports of other standing committees? Mr. McLaughlin?

MCLAUGHLIN: Mr. President, a parliamentary inquiry. Is this the time for the submission of committee proposals?

PRESIDENT EGAN: That will come soon, Mr. McLaughlin. Mr.

Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, the Style and Drafting Committee has distributed today a memorandum outlining target dates which have been mentioned to this Committee by each of the standing committees. These are the dates on which committee proposals are scheduled to be reported out of committee to the Convention.

PRESIDENT EGAN: I believe every delegate has a copy of that memorandum on his desk. Are there reports of select committees? Introduction and first reading of proposals? Mr. McLaughlin?

MCLAUGHLIN: The Committee on the Judiciary Branch submits

its proposal.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The proposal by the Committee on the Judiciary Branch will be read for the first time. If there is no objection the Convention will stand at recess for a brief time. (Brief recess)

PRESIDENT EGAN: Committee Proposal No. 2 by the Judiciary Committee will be read for the first time.

CHIEF CLERK: "Committee Proposal No. 2, introduced by the Committee on the Judiciary Branch, ARTICLE ON THE JUDICIARY."

Committee for assignment on the calendar. Are there other reports? The Chair would like to state that Committee Proposal No. 1 that came from the Committee on Suffrage, Elections and Apportionment yesterday was not properly read for the first time. If there is no objection the Chief Clerk will read the proposal for the first time.

CHIEF CLERK: "Committee Proposal No. 1, introduced by Committee on Suffrage, Elections and Apportionment, ARTICLE ON SUFFRAGE AND ELECTIONS."

PRESIDENT EGAN: The proposal is referred to the Rules Committee for assignment to the calendar. The Chief Clerk will proceed with the reading of proposals.

CHIEF CLERK: "Delegate Proposal No. 37, introduced by Mr. Londborg, SENATE APPORTIONMENT."

PRESIDENT EGAN: Committee on Suffrage, Elections and Apportionment.

CHIEF CLERK: "Delegate Proposal No. 38, introduced by Mr. Taylor, BILL OF RIGHTS."

PRESIDENT EGAN: Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights.

CHIEF CLERK: That is all I have.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Are there any other proposals? Are there any other proposals? Are there any motions or resolutions? Mr. Coghill?

COGHILI: The Committee on Administration has a Convention resolution.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is it your desire to bring the resolution to the attention of the Convention at this time, Mr. Coghill?

COGHILL: Yes.

CHIEF CLERK: "Resolution, introduced by Committee on Administration, CONVENTION RECESS.

WHEREAS, the Act providing for this Constitutional Convention permits the Convention to recess for a period of not to exceed 15 days for the purpose of holding public hearings in Alaska;

WHEREAS, all substantive committees of the Convention plan to recommend articles for inclusion in the Constitution prior to December 19;

WHEREAS, the holding of public hearings by as many delegates as practicable in communities throughout Alaska after December 19 will permit delegates to gain valuable insights into public reaction to committee proposals and to enable them to act more wisely on these proposals prior to their final adoption by the Convention:

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:

1. That the Convention recess from December 19, 1955 to January 3, 1955 inclusive, for the purpose of holding public hearings in Alaska on proposed provisions of the Constitution;

That hearings be held by such delegates at such times and places as the Convention shall approve;

3. That the delegates shall be entitled to reimbursement for their actual travel cost going to and returning from their homes for the recess and to compensation and per diem for the days involved in such travel.

4. That the delegates who participate in public hearings scheduled by the Convention will be entitled to compensation and per diem for the actual days devoted to such hearings, if it is necessary for the delegates to travel from their homes for such periods. Hearings shall not exceed the number of days approved in advance by the Convention. If the site of the hearings is away from their home, they shall also be entitled to reimbursement for the actual cost of travel going to the hearings and returning to their homes or to the Convention.

5. That those delegates whose normal residence is outside the Fairbanks area shall be entitled for per diem for the days of Convention recess spent in the Fairbanks area.

6. That the rate of compensation and per diem shall be those established in the Convention Enabling Act."

PRESIDENT EGAN: What is the pleasure of the Convention as regards the Resolution? Have copies of the Resolution been passed around? If not, the Convention will be at ease for a few minutes. The Convention will come to order. What is the pleasure of the Convention as regards the Resolution?

COGHILL: Mr. President, I move that the Convention Resolution on Recess be adopted.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Coghill moves that the Resolution dealing with the recess be adopted by the Convention.

TAYLOR: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Taylor seconds the motion.

WHITE: Mr. Chairman, may I direct a question to the Chairman of the Committee?

PRESIDENT EGAN: You may, Mr. White.

WHITE: Has the Committee figured out the cost involved here for travel and per diem during travel and pay and per diem during the holding of hearings and ascertained whether it will fit within our budget?

COGHILL: This has not been figured. We plan on figuring that as soon as the special committee on recess hearings brings in a report, and we were instructed by the President of the Convention to work with that Committee to the point of finding out the cost of the Convention hearings during the recess time. We will also at that time have a full report of monies expended up to December l9th.

LONDBORG: It seems that perhaps the hearings could run into a big expense. It might be better to wait until the other report could be worked in with this one.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Do you offer that as a suggestion, Mr. Londborg?

LONDBORG: Yes I do.

WHITE: I move to divide the question as between paragraphs 1 and 2 and paragraphs 3, 4, 5 and 6 on the other one.

V. FISCHER: I second that motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. White moves that the question be divided. Mr. White, in order to defer to Mr. Londborg, I believe Mr. Londborg intended to ask, and it may be he just did not put a motion properly, to ask that this be held until tomorrow in lieu of a report on the cost. Would you be so inclined to agree to such a request?

MCNEES: Point of order. Did Mr. Londborg make that in a form of a motion?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Londborg did not say he was making a motion. He said that was his wish, that he make that request. The Chair felt it was the responsibility of the Chair to help . Mr. Londborg put his request in the proper fashion.

MCNEES: There isn't any objection to the original motion by Mr. Coghill, is there?

PRESIDENT EGAN: No, except that Mr.. Londborg signified an

in. Mr. White?

WHITE: I have no objection if it is Mr. Londborg's intention

not to delay action on 1 and 2 beyond tomorrow.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Londborg.

LONDBORG: If the special committee would have the report by

then I would like to move that it be made the first matter of

business tomorrow along with the other reports.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Sundborg.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I believe your special committee

will have a report at tomorrow's session. In the meantime it

appears to me there are several errors in the Resolution as

presented. I wonder if we want to work on those now or

discuss them -- for instance on the date -- or do you want to

lay the whole thing over?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Sundborg, if we agree to hold this over

until tomorrow morning, it might be well that the Chairman of

the Administration Committee could work with you on that and

present it properly. Is there objection to Mr. Londborg's

request to hold this Resolution over as the first order of

business tomorrow morning?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Walsh.

WALSH: Mr. Chairman. I see no objection to Mr. Londborg's

request. I think we ought to proceed a little cautiously on

this. If we accept this proposal as read this morning as it

is, we don't know at this time what the cost is. If we overrun our budget, it would be a serious matter. I think we

should have the information before we pass on it.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there objection to holding this report

over as first order of business tomorrow? Mr. King?

KING: I think it is imperative that it be done quickly because going into Pan American last night to make reservations,

I just about did not get any reservations. If we don't catch

the plane on the 20th we might not get home where I live, at

all. They asked if I would call from here as to the date that

was set here. It is very important to them as they may have

to put on an extra section.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Fischer.

V. FISCHER: Mr. President, may I direct a question to Mr.

Londborg? Would you have any objection to dividing the question

that is proposed by Mr. White so that the dates, with slight revision, could be approved today since that may not have any basic effect upon the total expenditures. The question as to expenditures that is of paying both compensation and per diem, travel, and that sort of thing and that is where the main cost comes in.

ARMSTRONG: I think it is directly connected together. If we are having hearings, then my judgment on dates would be one fashion. If we are not having hearings then I would suggest, and I will amend eventually, that we come back on the 29th. Someone said that they hate to think of us conducting business over the New Year. I don't know of any better process for us to be in than to start the New Year on this and I have faith that every member of the Convention would be here on the floor and on his feet and ready to work. I say that with all the implications, knowing it, but I have faith in the group here and I would make an amendment in view of the decision on hearings.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Davis.

DAVIS: Mr. President, so far as I personally am concerned, it is important to me to get this matter settled and I think a good many others feel the same way. I wonder if it might not be advisable to take a short recess and let this committee

get together and come on and take care of it today instead of

putting it off until tomorrow.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Victor Rivers.

V. RIVERS: Mr. Chairman, I agree with Mr. Davis on this. I might say in the chairmen's committee meeting that this would cost between $6,000 and $7,000 was roughly figured at that, and also there is a miscellaneous item in the budget of some $23,6000 which is available for such items as this item. I give those figures to you merely as they were roughly calculated at the time the chairmen's meeting had its gathering on this subject.

COGHILL: I might add that probably one of the mistakes Mr. Sundborg was bringing out was the December 19 to January 3, inclusive. It should be the 20th to the 2nd, actually. We figured the 15 days for the recess being the maximum time because for the delegates to get back to their constituents and to the public and hold a hearing or a group of hearings, it is going to take all of that time. I don't believe that having Christmas in there is the intent of this recess. I believe the intent of this recess is for public hearings, and I think you are going to find an interested public to the point where you are going to have to hold a half dozen hearings when you get back into your areas.

HERMANN: Mr. President, I think if the recess is solely for the purpose of holding public hearings we should start it now and end it well before Christmas. I have my own ideas that we won't have many people attending public hearings during Christmas week.

R. RIVERS: Why bicker about the purpose of this recess? I think it fits in to try to hold some public hearings, but actually it gives the delegates a chance to get home to be with their families at Christmas and also maybe to bolster up their businesses a bit so they can come back after the New Year knowing that they are still afloat, so let's stick to the business of having a Christmas vacation. Let's not start any hearings now.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Buckalew.

BUCKALEW: I think we ought to face the problem. That is probably the reason we are having a recess, as Mr. Rivers said, to bolster our business and to go home on a frolic during the holidays. I don't think we should spend any public monies and if we are going to have hearings, I am inclined to agree with Delegate Hermann, that we should recess now and go back and conduct hearings and come back here and be in session during the holidays.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair would like to state that the Chair assumes that Mr. Londborg's suggestion has been objected to and we are now on the original motion for the adoption of the resolution. The motion to divide has not actually been made because of the fact the Chairman recognized Mr. Londborg's request. Mr. Londborg?

LONDBORG: Mr. Chairman, I stated that in the form of a motion, that it be made a first order of business tomorrow. I thought I heard a second to that.

SUNDBORG: I second it.

LONDBORG: We. should have the report from the Committee on Administration, and they should have the full financial report presented to them before we load them down with this. The per diem alone for 55 delegates for 15 days, if they would elect to take that, which they are entitled to, would come to $16,500. It would be pretty easy to use up the difference.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Under this resolution, Mr. Londborg, there is no possibility that 55 delegates could take 15 days per diem.

JOHNSON: Mr. President,point of order. It occurs to me that Mr. Londborg's motion is in the nature of a motion to lay on the table and is therefore not debatable.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Johnson, it might be in the nature to lay on the table, but the motion was to make it the first order of business tomorrow which is not in the nature of laying on the table. To set over to a set time is debatable. Is there . further discussion? Mr. Victor Fischer?

V. FISCHER: Mr. President, I would again like to direct the same question I did before to Mr. Londborg. Somebody else got up between. That question was about the division as proposed by Mr. White. Do you think that should await the report by the Committee on Administration?

LONDBORG: Well, I would think the whole thing ties in together, myself. However, if you wish to move to amend it can be put to a vote. But I don't believe one more day is going to throw too many of us off. Probably some have already put in reservations on transportation.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The question before us at this time is, "Shall this resolution be held over as a first order of business tomorrow?"

UNIDENTIFIED DELEGATE: Question.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is not further discussion all those in favor of the question signify by saying "aye", all opposed "no". The Chief Clerk will call the roll.

(The Chief Clerk called the roll with the following result:

Yeas: 32 - Armstrong, Barr, Boswell, Buckalew, Collins, Emberg, V. Fischer, Gray, Hellenthal, Hilscher. Johnson, Laws, Lee, Londborg, McLaughlin, McNealy, McNees, Marston, Metcalf, Reader, Riley, R. Rivers, Robertson, Rosswog, Smith, Sundborg, Sweeney, Taylor, Walsh, White, Wien, Mr. President.

Nays: 21 - Awes, Coghill,Cooper, Cross, Davis. H. Fischer, Harris, Hermann, Hinckel, Hurley, Kilcher, King, Knight, Nerland, Nolan, Nordale, Peratrovich, Poulsen, V. Rivers, Stewart, VanderLeest.

Absent: 2 - Doogan, McCutcheon.)

CHIEF CLERK: Thirty-two yeas, 21 nays and 2 absent.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The motion has carried and the resolution is held over until the first order of business tomorrow. Are there other motions or resolutions to come before us at this time?

JOHNSON: Mr. President, may I revert back to the order of business covering the introduction of proposals?

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection the Convention will now revert back to the order of business of introduction of proposals. The Chief Clerk may proceed with the reading of the proposal.

CHIEF CLERK: "Delegate Proposal No. 39, by Mr. Johnson, TRANSITORY PROVISIONS."

COGHILL: Point of information. Does it take a two-thirds vote to hold something over for a special order of business?

V. RIVERS: It requires a two-thirds for a special order. That was postponed to a set time and that requires a majority.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The proposal is referred to Committee No. IV the Committee on Ordinances. Are there other proposals?

CHIEF CLERK: That is all I have.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there any other unfinished business? Mrs. Hermann?

HERMANN: May we revert back to communications from outside the Convention? I have a wire I would like to have read.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection we will revert back to communications from outside the Convention at this time. The Clerk may read the communication.

CHIEF CLERK: From Fred M. Langsam. (The Chief Clerk read a telegram from Dr Fred M. Langsam, President of the Northwestern Alaska Chamber of Commerce at Nome, opposing any Judiciary proposal combining the Second and Fourth Divisions and removing the court from Nome.)

PRESIDENT EGAN: The communication will be referred to the Judiciary Committee. Mr. McLaughlin?

MCLAUGHLIN: Mr. President, merely to clarify the matter for the Convention, there is no proposal in the Judiciary Committee's Branch proposed to remove any court from any place.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. McLaughlin, we can probably take care of that and communicate that fact to these people. Are there any other reports or communications at this time? The Chair would like to state that in the gallery this morning is Mr. A. L. Renshaw, a member of the University of Alaska Mining Society. Mr. Renshaw has an invitation he would like to extend to the delegates at this time. Mr. Renshaw, would you wish to come forward?

MR. RENSHAW: This Saturday evening the Mining Society is sponsoring a dance to be held in the cafeteria. It is a semi-formal affair. We have gone to considerable expense to provide professional entertainment. I would like for you delegates to feel welcome to attend and encourage you to do so. We would like to have you come and enjoy yourself and meet the people who will inherit this constitution. Thank you. (Applause)

PRESIDENT EGAN: Thank you, Mr. Renshaw. I feel certain you will have a good attendance of delegates. Is there any other unfinished business? Mr. Riley?

RILEY: Mr. President, the Rules Committee will meet immediately upon adjournment in this room.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Rules Committee will meet immediately upon adjournment in this room. Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Committee III, Style and Drafting, will have a luncheon meeting in the cafeteria at 12:15.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Style and Drafting will have a luncheon meeting at 12:15 in the cafeteria. Are there other committee reports? Mr. McNealy?

MCNEALY: Mr. President, Committee No. IV on Ordinances will not meet until 3 o'clock this afternoon.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Committee on Ordinances will not meet until 3 o'clock this afternoon. Are there other reports? Any special orders of the day? If not, the Chair will entertain a motion -- Mr. King?

KING: Appearing before the Resources Committee, we hope before adjournment, will appear Dr. Gabrielson who is a national authority on fish and wildlife and his expenses are underwritten here by the Wildlife Association here in Alaska and the National Wildlife Institute. Due to his importance as a figure in this field I would certainly like to ask the Convention if he could appear before the Convention as a whole for a short talk before he appears before the various committees.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Do you have a set date, Mr. King?

KING: He was tied up until the 13th and I don't know if the Secretary of the Resources Committee has received a wire and he set a definite date or not.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You are asking then, Mr. King, unanimous consent that the Convention hear, or ask Dr. Gabrielson to appear before it and present a brief talk upon his arrival?

KING: Due to his importance as a national figure and leading exponent of wildlife.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the request of Mr. King. Is there objection?

V. RIVERS: I will object temporarily.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Objection is heard. Is there a second to the motion?

COOPER: I second the motion.

V. RIVERS: My objection stems from the fact we are taking an action to set an order of business which we are not entirely certain that Mr. Gabrielson will be here at that time. I would much prefer to see the motion come up when he is actually here, when the issues are before us. To take action at this time I think we would be making a mistake.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there further discussion of the particular motion?

KING: Mr. President, it was not my idea that the date be set. I just wanted to get the consent of the body here so that we could prepare an itinerary for Dr. Gabrielson when he came, that he would be able to appear before the Convention.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Victor Fischer.

V. FISCHER: Mr. President, I object to this kind of procedure not only because of the time being uncertain but also bringing a specific individual who is coming here to talk in favor of more or less a specific proposal according to the understanding that some of us have. It would seem to me that it would be more appropriate if Mr. Gabrielson addressed the Committee on Resources just as Delegate Bartlett did, and I am sure there will be just as many delegates, if not more, in attendance to hear him that way as there would be if he addressed the Convention as a whole, and I believe it would be a more proper procedure.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Gray.

GRAY: Mr. President, we have set a little precedent on this Committee of the Whole. I agree entirely with Delegate King. He's a national figure, he is coming at his own expense, he knows a lot about this field, (we may not agree with him personally) but if he wishes to speak to the Committee of the Whole rather than make a Committee of the Whole out of the Committee on Resources, he may have something worthwhile to say for everyone and we have extended this privilege to other persons, and I believe that it would actually be poor conduct to refuse a

As far as the date is concerned, I agree with Mr. Victor Rivers. that until a definite date is known, we need not go into something like that, but from there on I believe that if this gentleman wished to speak to the whole Convention he should be given that opportunity.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The question is then that the Convention allow Dr. Gabrielson to be heard before the Convention at such time as he might arrive here or wish to be heard by the Convention.

TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I move that the matter be laid on the table.

WHITE: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: It has been moved and seconded that the motion be laid on the table. The motion is undebatable. All those in favor of laying the motion on the table will signify by saying "aye" --

JOHNSON: Roll call, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chief Clerk will call the roll at Mr. Johnson's request.

(The Chief Clerk called the roll with the following result:

Yeas: 17 - Buckalew, Coghill, Cross, Davis, H. Fischer, V. Fischer, Hellenthal, Hinckel, Hurley, Londborg, Poulsen, Reader, R. Rivers. Taylor, Walsh, White, Mr. President.

Nays:. 36 - Armstrong, Awes, Barr, Boswell, Collins, Cooper, Emberg, Gray, Harris, Hermann, Hilscher, Johnson, Kilcher, King, Knight aws, Lee, McLaughlin, McNealy, McNees, Marston, Metcalf, Nerland, Nolan, Nordale, Peratrovich, Riley, V. Rivers, Robertson, Rosswog, Smith, Stewart, Sundborg, Sweeney, VanderLeest, Wien.

Absent: 2 - Doogan, McCutcheon.)

CHIEF CLERK: Seventeen yeas, 36 nays and 2 absent.

PRESIDENT EGAN: So the motion has failed. We have the original motion before us. Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I would like to move to amend the motion to invite Dr. Gabrielson rather than just allow him to

PRESIDENT EGAN: The motion, if there is no objection, shall be so stated that we invite Dr. Gabrielson to address us. Is there a second to that motion to amend the original motion?

GRAY: I second it.

TAYLOR: I object for the purposes of information. I take it from the first motion that Dr. Gabrielson has requested permission to appear before the Convention. Is that right?

KING: Mr. President, Dr. Gabrielson has never been here. He does not know a thing about it. We are just trying to get him up here without expense to the people of the Territory and without cost to the Convention -- just ask a simple request that he appear as an expert, exponent of wildlife and fish, to appear before this Convention.

TAYLOR: Well, then I believe if we ask him to appear before this Convention, we will be duty bound to pay his expenses the same as we have the other experts and specialists.

KING: I would rather withdraw the motion than have all this arguing with a lot of important work to do.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The motion was to amend it by inviting Dr. Gabrielson instead of allowing him. Is there objection to that amendment? Mr. Rosswog?

ROSSWOG: May I ask a question of Mr. King? To clear it in my mind, is Dr. Gabrielson's expenses being paid by the Sportsmen's Association or is he coming at his own expense?

KING: I thought I made that very clear in my opening statement. His expenses are paid by the Wildlife Institute, Alaska Sportsman's Council and Territorial Sportsmen's Association in Juneau. Mr. Riley, the Secretary of the Resources Committee, has that record in his file.

WHITE: Mr. President, I rise against the main motion. I dislike to do so and disagree with a fellow member of the Resources Committee, but I feel that I must, I am very anxious to hear what Dr. Gabrielson has to say. I think it is important to the business of the Committee. I am afraid of the precedent being set however, that one particular individual appearing in support of a particular proposal should be invited to appear before the Convention. The Committee on Resources has had and will have a steady stream of people wishing to appear before it. I think all of those people should have a full hearing . but I think the place for it is not on the floor of the Convention, but in regular committee meetings held in a room large enough to contain all the people who wish to hear him, in

Committee of the Whole, arranged for, scheduled and thought about in detail by the Committee. I would not like to be put in the position of giving one person preference over others.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Sundborg.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I think we are quibbling here about something which is not really very important -- whether we have Dr. Gabrielson talk to us in front of the main body or in a hearing where everybody presumably would be present. Dr. Gabrielson is a national figure. It will do our Convention and the cause of statehood a great deal of good, I am sure throughout the nation, to have it reported that Dr. Gabrielson addressed us. I don't know, and I don't think anyone knows that he is coming here to espouse some particular course of action or to advocate something which should go into our constitution. I rather think not. I think we would be very lucky if we can get this man to talk to us. He is the former Director of the Fish and Wildlife Service. He is now the head of the largest voluntary sportsman and conservation group in the United States and I think a man that we could all well spend some time listening to.

HARRIS: Mr. President, I would like to move the previous question.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Harris moves the previous question. Is there a second?

SWEENEY: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Sweeney seconds the motion. The question is, "Shall the previous question be ordered?" All in favor will signify by saying aye , all opposed "no". The "ayes" have it, and the previous question is ordered. The question is, "Shall Dr. Gabrielson be invited to appear before the Convention?"

DAVIS: Mr. President, I think that is correct except it is the amendment we are voting on that he be invited rather than allowed.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The amendment has already been accepted by unanimous consent. The Chair asked if there was objection to it. to the proposed amendment, to change it from "allow to "invite", and there was not objection, so the question is, "Shall Dr. Gabrielson be invited to appear"before us?" All those in favor will signify by saying aye , all opposed "no". The "ayes" have it, and Dr. Gabrielson will appear before us. Mr. Marston?

MARSTON: Mr. President. I move and ask unanimous consent that

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Marston moves and asks unanimous consent that the Convention stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock. Is there objection? Hearing no objection it is so ordered and the Convention stands adjourned.